tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-422519585523562932.post8266611861672773156..comments2024-03-10T21:11:45.692-04:00Comments on Thoughts of a Sojourner: Lowering the standards on Christian fictionMarkhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12218349188104332410noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-422519585523562932.post-1822190815253148822012-07-16T13:56:09.410-04:002012-07-16T13:56:09.410-04:00Thank you for such a wonderful, well thought out p...Thank you for such a wonderful, well thought out post! I'm saddened that your opinion is very much in the minority these days, but I agree with you completely!Bluerosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00680170638396181756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-422519585523562932.post-3695630427520179992012-07-15T13:25:49.680-04:002012-07-15T13:25:49.680-04:00Realism, as you say, is NOT an excuse; it IS howev...Realism, as you say, is NOT an excuse; it IS however, a perfectly valid reason. If you create a particular character, that character should speak in a mode that reflects that character's culture, social status, or personal upbringing, etc. If the author fails to do this, the author has failed to do her job. Period. End of story. Besides, what a wonderful opportunity to show the radical way a character might be transformed if they come to Christ. Research St. Paul's course use of common Greek. Even the scriptures have been cleaned up a bit ( not God's intent).jeddomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17392063899710118399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-422519585523562932.post-56234488836442405342012-07-15T13:11:18.396-04:002012-07-15T13:11:18.396-04:00First off, there is nothing that is inherently wro...First off, there is nothing that is inherently wrong in any word. One saying "s***" is not imediately sinning by having that word formulated in their mind or having that word leave their lips. How that word is used and the intent behind it is a matter of the heart, to which, as we know, God only knows our hearts.<br /><br />Let me ask, would God be more pleased with a cursing servant saved by grace who seeks out the sick, lost and poor or a clean-mouthed Bible reading, church going workless Christian who is also saved by grace? I say this only to illustrate that you cannot have a narrow view of language, nor a narrow view of who or what a Christian is and should be. Christians are followers of Jesus Christ who are saved by faith in Him. Focusing on things like foul language is trivial.<br /><br />Jesus often used offensive terms, we don't find them offensive because we don't use those terms in our society. But because of the things Jesus said (and did), He was killed. So Jesus, obviously offended people. And maybe they needed to be offended.<br /><br />In the bible, Jesus used bad words for bad things and good words for good things. Why is it so much worse to do the same in Christian fiction?<br /><br />On a more practical level, why is it wrong to represent the characters that are being written about in a more truthful, real and compelling way? <br /><br />When I read a book and the witchcraft practicing atheist says "darn", it is upsetting to me because it is not true to life. I know atheists who love their colorful language and would think nothing of dropping any 4-letter expletive in a much milder scene or circumstance.<br /><br />When it comes to not using those terms in front of a Pastor, people at church and children, I agree that these words are adult words that are not to be used “willy-nilly” (yes, I used the word “adult” AND “willy-nilly” in the same sentence). If such words offend people, you might not want to continue to use them (unless that is your purpose, of course), but that is why no one is forcing you to read a book that may have that language in it. But just having the genre of Christian Fiction on the label, should that mean you pick it up and it is watered down and shielded from any realism that might have entered its pages?<br /><br />I have had a difficult time finding any pastor that hasn’t said that Saving Private Ryan is a fantastic movie. That movie is obviously rated-R. Yet it is a great movie, why? It’s artistry, realism and plot. No the foul language used in the movie did not make the movie, but it did allow for an accurate portrayal of war and people.<br /><br />I would seek most in this issue to not limit Christian authors in their efforts to share the Gospel while reaching as many people as they can, while writing the most compelling story they can write.<br /><br />One of the most sincere prayers I have heard was from a high school student who was just coming to God by saying “I’m tired of this s***”, in reference to his life without Christ. Whether that is wrong or not, it was honest and I believe that God honors that. He knows everything and He knows the heart. What came out of that young man's mouth was a cry from his heart to the heart of God.Nicholas Nieblashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15749978538134865126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-422519585523562932.post-8676784515594601792012-07-15T13:10:33.537-04:002012-07-15T13:10:33.537-04:00First off, there is nothing that is inherently wro...First off, there is nothing that is inherently wrong in any word. One saying "s***" is not imediately sinning by having that word formulated in their mind or having that word leave their lips. How that word is used and the intent behind it is a matter of the heart, to which, as we know, God only knows our hearts.<br /><br />Let me ask, would God be more pleased with a cursing servant saved by grace who seeks out the sick, lost and poor or a clean-mouthed Bible reading, church going workless Christian who is also saved by grace? I say this only to illustrate that you cannot have a narrow view of language, nor a narrow view of who or what a Christian is and should be. Christians are followers of Jesus Christ who are saved by faith in Him. Focusing on things like foul language is trivial.<br /><br />Jesus often used offensive terms, we don't find them offensive because we don't use those terms in our society. But because of the things Jesus said (and did), He was killed. So Jesus, obviously offended people. And maybe they needed to be offended.<br /><br />In the bible, Jesus used bad words for bad things and good words for good things. Why is it so much worse to do the same in Christian fiction?<br /><br />On a more practical level, why is it wrong to represent the characters that are being written about in a more truthful, real and compelling way? <br /><br />When I read a book and the witchcraft practicing atheist says "darn", it is upsetting to me because it is not true to life. I know atheists who love their colorful language and would think nothing of dropping any 4-letter expletive in a much milder scene or circumstance.<br /><br />When it comes to not using those terms in front of a Pastor, people at church and children, I agree that these words are adult words that are not to be used “willy-nilly” (yes, I used the word “adult” AND “willy-nilly” in the same sentence). If such words offend people, you might not want to continue to use them (unless that is your purpose, of course), but that is why no one is forcing you to read a book that may have that language in it. But just having the genre of Christian Fiction on the label, should that mean you pick it up and it is watered down and shielded from any realism that might have entered its pages?<br /><br />I have had a difficult time finding any pastor that hasn’t said that Saving Private Ryan is a fantastic movie. That movie is obviously rated-R. Yet it is a great movie, why? It’s artistry, realism and plot. No the foul language used in the movie did not make the movie, but it did allow for an accurate portrayal of war and people.<br /><br />I would seek most in this issue to not limit Christian authors in their efforts to share the Gospel while reaching as many people as they can, while writing the most compelling story they can write.<br /><br />One of the most sincere prayers I have heard was from a high school student who was just coming to God by saying “I’m tired of this s***”, in reference to his life without Christ. Whether that is wrong or not, it was honest and I believe that God honors that. He knows everything and He knows the heart. What came out of that young man's mouth was a cry from his heart to the heart of God.Nicholas Nieblashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15749978538134865126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-422519585523562932.post-9416334550269255942012-07-15T09:38:55.376-04:002012-07-15T09:38:55.376-04:00How does violence fit in to this discussion? Many ...How does violence fit in to this discussion? Many Christian books use violence quite freely. Do we apply a different standard here?Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09300840663461804152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-422519585523562932.post-3284357329849843922012-06-28T09:02:25.705-04:002012-06-28T09:02:25.705-04:00Some excellent thoughts here, Mark, based on Scrip...Some excellent thoughts here, Mark, based on Scriptural principles. (And, by the way. if we can't go to the Word, where else can we go? Based on some discussion I've seen, you'd think Scripture was a secondary consideration.) Do you mind if I add more perspective? <br /><br />For a decade I worked in the bubble of a Christian college. Then I worked FedEx for nine months. Oh my! The stuff that came out of people's mouths could have curled hair. But soon employees realized I was a Christian, and they curbed their language to some degree. Some employees even confronted other employees who cursed or used vulgar language in my presence. Some even apologized. But get this: I never once said a word to them about language. They INSTINCTIVELY KNEW that because I was a Christian, bad language in my presence was inappropriate. Even the world gets this. Why can't Christians? <br /><br />A lot of Christian writers think good Christian fiction must be gritty, realistic fiction (curse words and all). It isn't true. Many of us have endured my FedEx experience, which was NOT entertaining. It was work in the real WORLD. Why would I want to read a Christian novel featuring the same language I had to hear at FedEx? I don't. Christian fiction should be an oasis amid the harsh realism around us. Should it tackle real-world issues? Absolutely. Should its language make followers of Christ cringe? No. There are plenty of FedEx employees who do that already. I don't need a Christian novel (that bears Christ's name, by the way) to do that for them. <br /><br />Bad language in Christian fiction? Realism is a lame excuse.Adam Blumerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17696092864807465658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-422519585523562932.post-31867390541296745612012-06-27T12:58:32.121-04:002012-06-27T12:58:32.121-04:00I've been so busy reading and reviewing books ...I've been so busy reading and reviewing books I guess I'm out of the loop with curse words being used in Christian fiction books. <br />To me what sets the dividing difference, and it is a divide, is the Christ-like story in the book. A Gospel message may not be placed in the fiction story, yet the characters are living out their Christ-like life in actions and words. As you stated in your post what would really be the difference in a Christian fiction book and in a secular fiction book? As Christians we are to live our lives and our words not as the world lives. We are to stand apart and be not yolked together with them. We live among them but we do not live like them. Yet, so many even Christians think that what they do and say is "right in their own eyes." You've written a great post, thank you!Annettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09693346981997723405noreply@blogger.com